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And Muehlenkamp believes it?

The anti-science & so called 'holocaust' History Project has a section on Treblinka, a must read. There, nutjob Yankel Wiernik is held in high esteem.

see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=33
"eyewitness" Yankel Wiernik at Treblinka
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280
'holocaust' History Project to unveil section on Treblinka

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Van Pelt could have easily requested the opinion of an expert crematorium designer to solve the problem of the exaggerated capabity of 1440 bodies per 24 hours and the resulting calculated coke consumption of 3.5 kg per body.

Or he could have read the SMERSH interrogation of engineer Kurt Prfer, who designed and constructed the ovens for the crematoria ..

Yes, and so could have Roberto Muehlenkamp, but we must remember, truth is not the issue here. Never has been.

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This thread ties in nicely with this one:

'Interrogated by SMERSCH / Topf engineers, Kurt Prufer, etc.'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=135

Desperate 'holocaust' liars like Roberto Muehlenkamp haven't a chance against science, haven't a chance against facts.

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NT's discussion contains a weird and unsubstantiated implied assumption that the figure given by Pruefer in Soviet captivity is the "manufacturer's recommendation":
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In Soviet captivity Pruefer told his interrogators that each muffle could only reduce one corpse per hour of operation.

From the interrogation of Engineer Kurt Pruefer by Soviet officers of "SMERSH" of the 8th Army, Captain Schatanwoski and Major Moruschenko on March 5, 1946:

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Frage: Welche Anzahl von Leichen konnte in Auschwitz pro Stunde in einem Krematorium verbrannt werden?

Antwort: In einem Krematorium, das fuenf Oefen oder fuenfzehn Oeffnungen (Muffeln) aufwies, verbrannte man in einer Stunde fuenfzehn Leichen.

Translated:

"Question: How many bodies could be cremated in Auschwitz per hour?

"Answer: In a crematorium with five ovens or fifteen muffles they cremated in one hour fifteen corpses."

Source: Verhoerprotokolle Kurt Pruefers (Interrogation protocol of Kurt Pruefer)

http://vho.org/VffG/2002/4/Prfer.html

[...]
Using Pruefer's interrogation figures of 1 corpse per muffle per hour and a working day of 20 hours with a four-hour pause for maintenance, with Birkenau's 46 muffles we have a maximum daily disposal rate of 920.

Actually, according to Negationists themselves the maximum, peak capacity would be the one in Pruefer's letter to the Auschwitz-Birkenau Construction Office of 8 September 1942 (at least they agree to proceed on that assumption for the sake of the argument). Of course, anything Topf engineers said in Soviet captivity which minimized the capacity of the crematoria should be treated with suspicion. Using this strategy they might have been trying to minimize their guilt.

Protocols of the interrogations of Topf engineers by SMERSH constitute more evidence for the gassings and deserve to be quoted at length. On February 11, 1948, Pruefer stated that he did not know about gassings until he visited the camp in 1943:
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[...]Question: Was it personally known to you for what purpose the company built crematoria and gas chambers in the concentration camps?

Answer: Until 1943 I was not informed about the actual purpose and destination of the crematoria erected in the concentration camps; this only became known to me when I visited Auschwitz concentration camp. Before this the representatives of the SS construction offices, who conducted the negotiations with the company Topf, told me that the crematoria in the concentration camps were built for burning the corpses of inmates who due to disease had died a natural death. About the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz concentration camp I also only learned when I visited this camp in 1943. Before that I had known nothing about their existence and purpose.[emphasis ours] I would also like to point out that the gas chambers in the concentration camps were not built by the company Topf. I only know that the company Topf mounted the ventilation installations for the gas chambers in Auschwitz concentration camp.

Question: What exactly came to your knowledge about the true purpose of the crematoria and gas chambers being erected at this camp at the time of your visit in 1943?

Answer: During my visit at Auschwitz concentration camp in 1943 it became known to me that in this camp a mass extermination of prisoners was going on, including women, children and elder people, who the Hitlerites sent to Auschwitz in whole transports from the German-occupied countries of Europe. The inmates arriving at Auschwitz concentration camps were sent by the SS-men to the gas chambers, where they were murdered, and thereafter their corpses were burned in the crematoria as well as on special incineration pyres.

Question: Thus, when you took part in building the ovens for the crematorium at Auschwitz concentration camp, you know that these were meant for the destruction of wholly innocent people?

Answer: Yes, I knew this.

Question: What made you actively concern yourself with these works, then?

Answer: After the actual purpose of the crematoria at Auschwitz concentration camp had become known to me, I decided to refrain from taking part in their construction, and hereof informed the head of the company, Ludwig Topf.
In reply Topf told me that the building of the crematoria in the concentration camps was being carried out by the company on behalf of the Reich Office of the SS, and that if I refused to take part in these works I could be arrested as a saboteur and imprisoned in a concentration camp. For fear of losing my job and being exposed to reprisals I therefore abandoned my original intention and continued to fulfill all of the company's orders for building crematoria in the concentration camps. Other motivations I did not have.

Question: Did the fact that you belonged to the Nazi party since 1933 not influence your decision?

Answer: Of course my membership in the Nazi party, whose ideas I shared, obliged me to loyally support all measures taken by the government organs of Germany - including the SS Reich Office - and to forcefully contribute to the execution of these measures. But in the present case I took the decision to continue with the works of constructing and building the crematoria out of fear of reprisals and for no other reasons. Otherwise I would not have requested Ludwig Topf to release me from these tasks.[...]

Later, on March 4, he corrected himself:
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[...]Question: When and in what manner did it become known to you that at the first crematorium in Auschwitz there was a gas chamber?

Answer: I learned of this by chance in 1942 under the following circumstances:
In the spring of 1942, at the request of the Auschwitz camp's SS-Construction Office, I went to Auschwitz to verify the project for the planned building of a new crematorium in the Auschwitz camp sector, present my conclusions and also have a look at the site where this crematorium was to be built.
The foreseen construction site I visited in the company of an SS-man.
When we passed the first crematorium, I saw through a half-open door that in one of the rooms of the crematorium building there were human corpses lying on the floor in various positions. There were more than ten. When I approached this room, someone quickly slammed the door shut from the inside. As the purpose of this room in Crematorium Nr. 1 wasn't known to me, I asked the SS-man accompanying me about it. He replied that in this room a gas chamber had been installed and that inmates were poisoned with gas therein.
To my following question, in which way this gas chamber worked, the SS-man answered elusively that he didn't know exactly, but he told me that it was known to him that there were gas chambers in the city of Lodz, where the SS-men killed inmates with the exhaust gases of cars; thereafter, however, they had made improvements to speed up the killing process and started to use some kind of gas.
As the SS-man declared, the killing process had as a result of the use of gasses in the gas chambers been shortened from 10 to 15 to two minutes in the gas chambers of Lodz.
The killing process in the gas chambers of the city of Lodz, in the words of the SS-man, went as follows: the inmates were chased into the gas chambers, the doors were hermetically closed and opened bottles with gas were thrown through special openings.
On hand of this account I concluded that the inmates were also being murdered in the same way by SS-men in the gas chamber installed by the SS-men in Crematorium No. 1.

Question: This means that since the spring of 1942 you were informed about the existence of gas chambers at the crematoria of the Auschwitz camp?

Answer: Completely right. As I already said before, I first learned in the spring of 1942 that in Crematorium No. 1 at Auschwitz concentration camp there was a gas chamber and that there inmates were being violently murdered by the SS-men.

Question: Why did you declare at the previous interrogations that you had first come to know in 1943 about the true purpose of the crematoria and gas chambers located in Auschwitz concentration camp?

Answer: In my depositions during the previous interrogations I was simply mistaken about the date. In actual fact this became known to me in the spring of 1942, as I said.[...]

Pruefer's testimony about gassings is corroborated by those of Sander and Schultze. On March 4, 1946, Karl Schultze stated:
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[...] Question: When did you personally go to the Auschwitz camp to equip the crematoria and the gas chambers?

Answer: At Auschwitz concentration camp I was twice. Once in connection with a calculation error regarding the ventilation - this was in the spring o 1943 - and the second time about two months later, to commission the ventilation in a newly built crematorium.

Question: What did your notice at the time of your stay in Auschwitz concentration camp, while you were in the immediate surroundings of the crematorium and the gas chambers?

Answer: When I was at Auschwitz concentration camp, I personally saw, twenty steps away from me, how SS-men from the camp chased up to three hundred people before them - men, women and children. Of which nationality they were I could hardly determine, but according to their outside appearance they had no idea where they were being led. They chased them all into a huge wooden barracks without windows, which was electrically lighted inside.
From the outside this barracks was connected with the gas chamber through a closed corridor, where I installed the ventilation.
This I watched at around 16 hours. On the following day I was in the crematorium and saw sixty corpses of men, women and children of different age lying there. They lay on the floor without clothes, to be introduced into the crematorium oven. According to their aspect they had been murdered in the gas chamber.

Question: Tell us about the interior installation of the gas chamber!

Answer: This building was eight meters wide and 30 meters long. Inside it was completely empty. The height of this building inside was 2.6 meters. On the roof there were four square openings of 25 x 25 centimeters each.
The ventilation installation provided for a ten-times air exchange; it served to suck out the gas that had collected and pump in fresh air. The pipes of the ventilation, which I personally constructed for the gas chamber, were immured in the walls of the chamber.

Question: With whom did you talk about the constructed and built crematoria and gas chambers serving for the murder of wholly innocent people?

Answer: I wish to explain this clearly. On the service trip to Auschwitz the constructor of the crematorium ovens, Pruefer, was with me. When he arrived in the morning, he also saw the sixty corpses of men, women and children lying on the floor.
I told him what had happened: how they had taken these people here, chased them into the gas chambers and killed them, and how they now burned their corpses in the crematorium. Pruefer didn't answer.

Question: After you personally and Pruefer had witnessed the murder of innocent people, how many crematoria and gas chambers for the concentration camps did you still build?

Answer: After I had watched at Auschwitz concentration camp how they destroyed innocent people in the gas chambers and crematoria I still installed five crematorium ovens there together with Pruefer and equipped one gas chamber with a ventilation device.

Question: What led you to spend seven days at Auschwitz during this service trip?

Answer: I stayed there five days because there was no transport with people meant for destruction, while I had to check the function of the crematorium oven in practice. This checking I could only do when the afore-mentioned up to three hundred people arrived, who were then murdered in the gas chambers.[...]

Schultze repeated this on March 14. Fritz Sander said on March 7, 1946:
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[...]Question: Tell us about your invention of the crematorium for mass incineration!

Answer: As leading engineer of the company Topf I led the crematorium building, whose chief was Pruefer. The latter told me in 1942, the exact time I no longer remember, during a conversation about the capacity of the crematoria which had been erected at Auschwitz concentration camp, that these could not manage the number of bodies to be burned. He gave as an example that they introduced two or three corpses into the introduction openings, but the crematorium could nevertheless not take care of the workload accruing in concentration camps.
Thereupon I, as a specialist in the area of heating, decided on my own initiative to build a crematorium which had a higher capacity for burning corpses.
In November 1942 I was finished with my project of a crematorium for the mass burning of corpses and submitted this project to the state patent office in Berlin.
The crematorium for mass incineration should be developed after the principle of the assembly line, and into the oven corpses should be incessantly introduced for cremation by mechanical means.
The corpses should get into the oven under the load of their own weight, falling by themselves upon the grid on a fireproof surface with an inclination of 40 degrees and burning under the effect of the fire. The corpses themselves were to serve as an additional source of fuel.
This patent could not be officially registered at the state patent office because due to the war it had a confidential character, but my invention was applied in practice, and the number [of the patent] was communicated to me.

Question: Who developed and authorized the building of the crematoria for the concentration camps Auschwitz and Buchenwald?

Answer: The development and building of crematoria was the task of Pruefer, the ventilation installations for the crematoria were Schultze's job. I checked the projects, and after I had done this they were authorized by the company Topf.

Question: What was the capacity of the crematorium for mass incineration of corpses you intended to achieve?

Answer: My idea in constructing the crematorium for the mass incineration of corpses consisted in the bodies getting into the oven uninterruptedly. The number of corpses that can be burned in one hour is much higher in the crematorium I developed than that which was burned in a [conventional] crematorium oven.

Question: What did Pruefer and Schultze tell you after their business trip to Auschwitz concentration camp?

Answer: In the summer of 1942 Pruefer and Schultze told me that in the concentration camps of Auschwitz they destroyed many people in gas chambers and burned their corpses in the crematoria, the burden on the crematoria being so huge that they put three corpses into an oven opening [at the same time].

Question: Does this mean you knew that in the concentration camps at Auschwitz they destroyed completely innocent people?

Answer: Yes, since the summer of 1942 I knew that in the concentration camp at Auschwitz wholly innocent people were destroyed there, whereupon their bodies were burned in the crematoria. Pruefer told me about colossal transports of people being taken from Poland, Greece and other countries to the concentration camps Auschwitz and destroyed there.

Question: How was it that, although you knew that the crematoria in the concentration camps served for the destruction of innocent people, you nevertheless on your own initiative started designing a crematorium for an even greater mass extermination?

Answer: I as German engineer and employee of the company Topf, considered it my duty as a German engineer and employee of the company Topf to use my whole knowledge to contribute to the victory of Hitler Germany, exactly as any given aircraft construction engineer does, even when this means the destruction of people.
[...]

He reconfirmed his knowledge of gassings on March 13 and 21. Thus we have three Topf engineers confirming gassings at Auschwitz. Our opponents will likely point out, that we shouldn't trust Soviet interrogations (even though they already use them). We believe, however, that Topf engineers' statements are inconsistent with coercion by SMERSH. Indeed, if they were tortured or otherwise forced to make confessions, Topf engineers would talk about how they designed miraculous crematoria, which could incinerate 10,000 or more corpses per day. They stated exactly the opposite! Thus, we add three more important pieces of evidence to our list.

But let's return to crematoria capacities. As we stated above, it could be, that Topf engineers were minimizing the actual capacities for their own purposes. But it could also be that what they stated was more or less true (at least for some ovens, see below) - maybe normally certain Auschwitz ovens should have been incinerating one corpse per muffle per hour. That would be "manufacturer's recommendation", then. But would Nazis or Sonderkommandos necessarily follow this recommendation? We rather think not, if that would interfere with their aims. For example, Pruefer himself affirmed that multiple cremation method was used and that it indeed worked, during March 19 1946 interrogation:
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Question: Were the crematoria tested during your stay at Auschwitz concentration camp?

Answer: Of the six times on which I visited Auschwitz concentration camp only once, at the beginning of 1943, the testing of two of the five new ovens installed in the crematorium which had been built by myself, was carried out. In all of them six corpses of men of various ages were burnt, and there in the crematorium also lay the corpses of women and children, who had been murdered in the gas chamber and were to be burned in the crematorium. The total number of corpses was about sixty.

Question: How did you participate in the killing of murdered, innocent victims?

Answer: I checked if the ovens in the crematorium installed by myself functioned.

Question: What conclusions did you draw?

Answer: I drew the conclusion that the ovens built by myself in the crematorium worked well and without failures.

That is, two corpses per muffle were successfully incinerated in new crematoria. "Revisionists" usually like to quote Pruefer to the effect that he witnessed the failed multiple cremations. Let's see what Pruefer said on the same date:
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Question: Since when was it known to you that in the concentration camps innocent people were destroyed and burned?

Answer: Of this I learned in the spring of 1943, when in my presence, during the testing of the ovens in the crematorium, the corpses of people murdered in the gas chamber of Auschwitz concentration camp were burned.

Question: When you came back from the business trip to Auschwitz concentration camp in the spring of 1943 to the company Topf, to whom did there did you talk about your stay at Auschwitz?

Answer: When I came back from the business trip to Auschwitz concentration camp in the spring of 1943, I talked to the head of the company, Ludwig Topf, and to leading engineer Sander.

Question: What did you report to Sander about your trip to Auschwitz?

Answer: I reported to Sander that I had been present at the testing of the ovens in the crematorium of Auschwitz concentration camp and reached the conclusion that the crematories could not cope with such a number of corpses as had to be burned there, because the ovens of the crematoria did not have a high enough performance. I mentioned to Sander as an example that in my presence two-three corpses had been introduced into a muffle instead of a single one, and that the ovens of the crematorium would then not cope with that load because very many corpses had to be burned. At that time I also told Sander that the corpses I had seen were of people who had been previously murdered in the gas chambers.

Question: Did you start developing new, improved crematoria for the concentration camps after the conversation with Sander?

Answer: No, we continued building crematoria of the same type. I know, however, that Sander personally concerned himself with the draft of a new, improved type of crematorium, but I can say nothing in concrete about this project.

But Pruefer, as we remember, was wrong about the year - it was the spring of 1942. Sander confirmed this in March 7, 1946 interrogation:
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As leading engineer of the company Topf I led the crematorium building, whose chief was Pruefer. The latter told me in 1942, the exact time I no longer remember, during a conversation about the capacity of the crematoria which had been erected at Auschwitz concentration camp, that these could not manage the number of bodies to be burned. He gave as an example that they introduced two or three corpses into the introduction openings, but the crematorium could nevertheless not take care of the workload accruing in concentration camps.

Thus, when Pruefer was talking about low-performance ovens, he was talking about crematorium I furnaces. We wouldn't be surprised if, contrary to what Pruefer claimed, Topf & Soehne didn't supply the same, allegedly insufficiently performing concentration camp version of cremation ovens for the Birkenau crematoria. The Birkenau ovens are likely to have been an intermediate solution between the standard ovens for concentration camps and the super-crematorium that Sander had developed, incorporating some elements of the latter. If Pruefer was concerned about more than one body being introduced in each muffle when he witnessed cremations in the spring of 1942, it is to be expected that some improvements were introduced in the Birkenau crematoria to make such use of the product less abusive. When Pruefer watched the test of one of the Birkenau crematoria in the spring of 1943, together with Schultze, some improvement had been achieved. Although six bodies were burned in each three-muffle oven, i.e. two per muffle, Pruefer could draw the conclusion that "the ovens built by myself in the crematorium worked well and without failures" (see Pruefer's deposition of March 19, 1946).

Thus, it can be stated that Topf engineers' statements in Soviet captivity hardly present any serious problems to the historical record. They do, however, present a big problem for "Revisionists".

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Next, our opponents repeat their red herring:
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NT: The capacity of the crematoria in Auschwitz of one body per muffle per hour was clearly stated by engineer Pruefer during his interrogation by the Soviet SMERSH.

And where were you, dear opponents, when we already dealt with this yawn of an argument?
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Of course, anything Topf engineers said in Soviet captivity which minimized the capacity of the crematoria should be treated with suspicion. Using this strategy they might have been trying to minimize their guilt.

[...]

But it could also be that what they stated was more or less true (at least for some ovens, see below) - maybe normally certain Auschwitz ovens should have been incinerating one corpse per muffle per hour. That would be "manufacturer's recommendation", then. But would Nazis or Sonderkommandos necessarily follow this recommendation? We rather think not, if that would interfere with their aims. For example, Pruefer himself affirmed that multiple cremation method was used and that it indeed worked, during March 19, 1946 interrogation: [see above - VT]

And, of course, Pruefer's own wartime estimates were much, much higher than 1 corpse per hour. On 8.9.1942 Pruefer recorded in a memo:
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Herr Obersturmfuehrer Krone calls to say that he was summoned to meet with Brigadefuehrer Kaemmer and to report on his inspection of the crematorium in Auschwitz, whence he had returned yesterday. He could make nothing of the facilities at Auschwitz and wanted therefore to inform himself on how many muffles are in operation there at this time and how many ovens with muffles we are building there and are still to be delivered. I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle ovens are in operation, with a capacity of 250 per day. Further, currently under construction are 5 triple muffle ovens with a daily capacity of 800. Today and in the next few days, 2 eight-muffle ovens, each with a daily capacity of 800, will come on consignment, redirected from Mogilew.

Mr K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient; we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible.

It is interesting, though, that in this instance revisionists prefer testimonial piece of evidence to a documentary one.

This memo clearly establishes the genocidal intent of the Nazis. The capacity of 80,000 corpses per month was not enough for Auschwitz! If we are to believe our opponents, (46 x 20 x 30 =) 27,600 bodies per months could be theoretically burned in Auschwitz and that was quite enough. After all, they didnt install more than 46 muffles. But these muffles could burn (3450 x 30 =) 103,500 bodies per month according to Pruefer! If the capacity of 27,600 was quite enough for a normal camp, it is only logical to conclude that overcapacity of 75,900 bodies would be used for homicide. This conclusion is buttressed by the official concentration camps mortality data for the second half of 1942 and first half of 1943, presented by Pohl to Himmler on October 8, 1943, which is available at http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/05/NMT05-T0381.htm .

We stress here that our conclusion holds regardless of whether the real capacity corresponded to Pruefers estimate or not, since we are talking about intent.

Nevertheless, the large capacities of Nazi war-time ovens seem to be confirmed also by another document, quoted, ironically, by Mattogno and Graf:
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Regarding the capacity of the two oil-fueled furnaces, SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Krone, an employee of Amt CIII of the SS Economic-Administrative Main Office, wrote in his January 20, 1943, report, which we have already mentioned in Chapter III:

Crematorium.

At this time two oil-fueled cremation furnaces are in operation. Together, these furnaces can dispose of some 100 bodies in a 12-hour period."

This corresponds to a capacity of 4 bodies per hour.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/6.html

Its up to our opponents, then, to prove that Auschwitz bodies could burn only one body per muffle per hour.

Finally, "Revisionists" try to answer our question concerning the testimonies of the Topf engineers:
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VT: But what do our opponents make of Topf engineers' testimonies? They certainly did not exaggerate the cremation capacities (if anything, they minimized them). Does NT find them credible? If not, why not?

Even knowing that our opponents are simple charlatans did not prevent us from being surprised by the intellectual dishonesty of their "reply":
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Pruefer indeed testified about the homicidal gas chamber in Krema I, based on hearsay.

He saw some dead people and was told by someone else who also was told, etc., etc.

The Soviet interrogators had their special methods. They also got confessions out of Wehrmacht officers about their participation in the Katyn massacre and were subsequently hanged on a public square in Leningrad.

Neither Pruefer nor Sander survived the captivity in the Soviet Union and the interrogations by SMERSH. They did not come home.

There really is no more to add on this. It is not hard to understand.

1) And this is after we have shown that the statements, made by Topf engineers, are
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inconsistent with coercion by SMERSH. Indeed, if they were tortured or otherwise forced to make confessions, Topf engineers would talk about how they designed miraculous crematoria, which could incinerate 10,000 or more corpses per day. They stated exactly the opposite!

Failure to address our argument shows the intellectual corruption of our opponents. What our opponents are trying to say is that Topf engineers said what SMERSH interrogators wanted them to say. Things like:

- In one crematorium, which had five ovens or fifteen muffles, fifteen corpses were burned in one hour.
- The size of the introduction openings at the crematoria for concentration camps is smaller 70 x 70 cm , the length is two meters, as opposed to two meters and thirty centimeters in civilian crematoria.
- The construction of the crematoria for the concentration camps is different; it does not allow for previously heating the air, for which reason the corpse burns more slowly and generating smoke.

Now, this is exactly THE sort of testimony Soviets would want to lend credence to their 4,000,000 victims estimate based on cremation capacities. Right. Sure. And we have that Brooklyn bridge to offer to our opponents.

2) Actually, there exists a much better reason to take Topf engineers' testimonies seriously. Anybody who studied the Soviet interrogation protocols of Stalins time knows that most, if not all people did not confess at first. We will cite only one example here, although we have many more of them. According to the documents at http://idf.ru/5/doc.shtml , Marija Vejtsman, the sister of Chaim Weitzmann, was arrested on February 10, 1953. During the first interrogation on February 10, 1953, she maintained her innocence. During the second interrogation on February 13, 1953, she still maintained her innocence (although she admitted to holding "Jewish nationalist" views, which might have been true). During the third interrogation on the same day she again did not admit to anti-Soviet crimes (except for "Jewish nationalism"). During the fourth interrogation on February 16, 1953 she still maintained her innocence. Same is true for her fifth interrogation on February 19, 1953. And only during the sixth interrogation on February 23, 1953, she did plead guilty. This is not an exception, but the rule. Acquiring false confessions was a hard job which took a lot of time.

This represents a clear example of a pattern of pressure in which someone was coerced to say something she otherwise denied. Where is the evidence of such coercion in the case of the Topf engineers? The mere fact that they said something that the Negationist team passionately believes is false doesn't cut it, except to those fond of circular reasoning. Topf engineers were arrested on March 4, 1946 (Pressac in Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, p. 240). And they gave their first testimonies about Auschwitz gas chambers on the same day (4 March) and the next day (5 March) and on March 7. Pruefer, Schultze and Sander testified about the gas chambers during their first interrogations. With a very high probability it signifies that they were not coerced into giving this testimony.

3) Although they refuse to take Topf engineers' testimonies about the gas chambers at face value, Negationists happily cite Pruefer's statements about the cremation capacities. But guys, didn't SMERSH coerce these poor engineers into giving these statements also? Sorry, you can't eat that cake and have it too.

4) Negationists' fantasies about Wehrmacht officers who confessed to participating in Katyn massacre and were subsequently hanged on a public square in Leningrad once more show their utter historical ignorance. The only German who was tried in Soviet Union for participation in Katyn massacre and confessed to participation in the burial of the bodies was Arno Diere (or Duere). He was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor and in 1954 recanted his Katyn confession, so, obviously, he was not hanged (I. Jazhborovskaja, A. Jablokov, V. Parsadanova, Katynskij sindrom[/l], Moscow, ROSSPEN, 2001, pp. 336, 337). By the way, where are the recantations of the Topf engineers?

5) Negationists say that engineers' testimonies are mere hearsay. For a few seconds let's accept that it is true. That means, according to NT, that if someone did not personally witness the gassings, his testimony is worthless. Which is a pure and unadulterated bullshit. Imagine a hypothetical person, who orders the execution of a certain group of people and then receives the information that the order was executed. Later at his trial he testifies about this execution. How foolishly would all those "Revisionists" look, if they would argue that his testimony is worthless hearsay, since he himself did not witness the execution!

Anyway, here is how Pruefer described how he learned about the existence of gas chambers (March 4, 1948):
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When we passed the first crematorium, I saw through a half-open door that in one of the rooms of the crematorium building there were human corpses lying on the floor in various positions. There were more than ten. When I approached this room, someone quickly slammed the door shut from the inside. As the purpose of this room in Crematorium Nr. 1 wasn't known to me, I asked the SS-man accompanying me about it. He replied that in this room a gas chamber had been installed and that inmates were poisoned with gas therein.

The fact that SS-man told Pruefer about gas chamber is not hearsay. And this fact corroborates the existence of this gas chamber, for SS-man had no reason to lie at the time.

Also, Pruefer had been told about the use of HCN to gas people by Bischoff (March 19, 1946):
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That in these gas chambers inmates were killed with prussic acid vapors was told to me by the Head of the SS Construction Office, von Bischoff, at whose request I had correspondence with some German companies concerning the order of gas testers as equipment for the gas chambers.

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Question: You are shown the photocopy of a letter with your signature of 02.03.1943 addressed to the SS construction office of Auschwitz regarding ten gas testers. Explain for what purpose you procured these gas testers on behalf of the SS organs!
Answer: The gas testers mentioned in the photocopy of my letter of 2 March 1943 addressed to the SS construction office of Auschwitz concentration camp I procured at the request of the head of said construction office von Bischoff in order to equip the gas chambers at the camp's crematoria with them.
When von Bischoff turned to me with the corresponding request he told me that after the poisoning of inmates in the gas chambers there were often cases in which, even after their ventilation, there remained prussic acid vapours, which led to the poisoning of the operation personnel working at these chambers. Therefore von Bischoff asked me to find out what companies manufactured gas testers that one could measure the concentration of prussic acid vapours in the gas chambers with, so that the operation personnel could work without risk. I could not fulfil von Bischoffs demand because I could not find a company that would have manufactured such gas testers.
Question: The photocopy of the letter of 02.03.43 shown to you as well as your answer essentially confirm that you very actively took part in the works for installing the gas chambers at Auschwitz concentration camp. Why did you previously try to dispute this circumstance?
Answer: Before I merely disputed that I had directly participated in the works of mounting the ventilation installations in the gas chambers. That I in general participated in equipping these chambers with other objects, especially with gas testers, I do not dispute.

Pruefer also testified about the code words Nazis used for gas chambers (March 13, 1948):
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Question: By what camouflage designations were the gas chambers referred to on the drawings and documents of the correspondence between the SS Construction Office of Auschwitz concentration camp and your company?
Answer: On the drawings of the crematoria and in the official correspondence between the SS Construction Office of Auschwitz concentration camp and the company Topf und Sohne the gas chambers had the camouflage designations "corpse chambers", "special cellars", "baths for special applications", etc.
Question: At a session with the SS Construction Office of Auschwitz camp, which took place on 19. 8. 1942, the question of installing two three-muffle ovens at the baths for special applications was discussed. Explain what baths with special applications were the subject of this session!
Answer: At this session the subject was the installation of two three-muffle ovens at the gas chambers that had been built by the SS-men at Birkenau, completely separate from the crematoria built in said camp sector.
Where exactly these gas chambers were located I do not know, because I was never in the area where they were located and never saw them.
From the accounts of an inmate who worked as chief stoker of the crematoria in Auschwitz I know that these gas chambers were three kilometers away from the Birkenau crematoria and that the corpses of the prisoners murdered with gas therein were incinerated on pyres.
I would like to complement these statement to the effect that at these gas chambers no crematorium ovens were built.

No further comments are needed, really.
Schultze witnessed the gassing victims being chased to the gas chamber (March 4, 1946):
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When I was at Auschwitz concentration camp, I personally saw, twenty steps away from me, how SS-men from the camp chased up to three hundred people before them - men, women and children. Of which nationality they were I could hardly determine, but according to their outside appearance they had no idea where they were being led. They chased them all into a huge wooden barracks without windows, which was electrically lighted inside.
From the outside this barracks was connected with the gas chamber through a closed corridor, where I installed the ventilation.
This I watched at around 16 hours. On the following day I was in the crematorium and saw sixty corpses of men, women and children of different age lying there. They lay on the floor without clothes, to be introduced into the crematorium oven. According to their aspect they had been murdered in the gas chamber.
[...]
On the service trip to Auschwitz the constructor of the crematorium ovens, Pruefer, was with me. When he arrived in the morning, he also saw the sixty corpses of men, women and children lying on the floor.
I told him what had happened: how they had taken these people here, chased them into the gas chambers and killed them, and how they now burned their corpses in the crematorium. Pruefer didn't answer.

Moreover, he specifically waited for a transport to arrive and be murdered (March 14, 1946):
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Question: You stated before that you had only learned that innocent people were burned on the crematoria built by Pruefer together with yourself when you saw sixty corpses in the crematorium, and now you are stating that in the concentration camp your waited six days for a transport of people meant for destruction. This means that you already knew earlier that in the crematoria innocent people were killed?
Answer: Yes, I see myself force to admit that, already before I saw the aforementioned sixty corpses, I knew that in the crematoria built by myself together with Pruefer they killed innocent people; for this reason I sat at Auschwitz concentration camp and waited until a transport of people meant for destruction arrived, in order to be able to test the function of the ventilation system during the burning of the corpses of the innocent people murdered before in the gas chambers.

This is not hearsay either. Sander (March 13, 1946):
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Question: Was it known to you, when you took part in the development of and building of crematoria for the concentration camps, that in these crematoria innocent people were burned?
Answer: Yes, it was known to me that in the crematoria built with my participation in the concentration camps innocent people were burned.
Question: When did this become known to you?
Answer: In 1942, the month I no longer remember, I learned in a conversation with engineer Pruefer after his return from a business trip to Auschwitz, that in the developed and built crematoria in the concentration camps innocent people were burned.
Question: For what purpose did Pruefer go to Auschwitz concentration camp?
Answer: This was related to the company Topf, after the building of the crematoria, sending their people for erection of the crematoria to the concentration camps, and engineer Pruefer as head of construction of the crematoria going to the concentration camp in order to inspect how the erection work was going on; he was also present at the practical testing of the crematoria.
Pruefer informed me after his return to Auschwitz concentration camp that he had been present at the testing of the crematoria there erected and arrived at the conclusion that they had a low performance and could not handle the number of corpses that had to be burned there. At that time Pruefer mentioned to me as an example that in his presence two corpses had been introduced into each of the openings of the crematorium, but that the latter were not up to this workload because in the concentration camp there were very many bodies to be burned.
Question: When Pruefer told you that the crematoria would not have managed the burning of the corpses, were you interested and did you ask him where so many corpses came from?
Answer: Yes, I asked Pruefer why there were so many corpses in the concentration camps, and he replied that they murdered people in gas chambers there and took their bodies for incineration to the crematorium.

Again, while the fact of gassing here might be called hearsay, the fact that Pruefer told Sander about gassings in 1942 is not. It shows that in 1942 Pruefer indeed knew about gassings and told Sander about them. This might be hearsay, but it both corroborates and can only be explained by the existing historical record. It can't be explained by the "Revisionist" historical fantasies.

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At this place it must be clearly pointed out that Meyer finds strong words against the version of the letter in question (a postwar typed copy) which was used by Piper and is printed as a facsimile in Pipers article[7]. Yet he obviously does not question the authenticity of the document, the facsimile of which from the Moscow Archive was printed by van Pelt.

In this Meyer differs from David Irving, who in his trial against Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Editors had questioned the authenticity of the document proper. Van Pelt wrote in detail about the quality of this document as a source[8], one page after the facsimile mentioned by Meyer. Van Pelts arguments for the authenticity of the document can be summarized as follows:

If the document should have been forged, then Soviet entities must have been the forgers. If it should have been forged, then why was it nowhere used as evidence or for propaganda purposes? Actually the Soviet military commission in its report had claimed a crematorium capacity more than twice as high as becomes apparent from the document in question. The Soviets knew about the document at an early stage, for in the Moscow Archives there is a Russian translation dated of 28 April 1945. The commissions report was from May 1945, nevertheless the document was not mentioned, precisely because it proved only half the capacity that was claimed by the commission.

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In meticulous, detective-like work van Pelt managed to remove the doubts about the authenticity of the document (van Pelt, page 479-484). Meyers argumentation against this document is therefore another: he claims that the letter was not sent.

It is absurd, of course, to conclude from the fact of an unsigned carbon copy for the files that the original was not sent. Meyer produced no other evidence or even indications in support of his claim. His proof consists of circular logic: he thinks the data contained in the letter of 28 June 1943 about the capacity of the crematoria had already been obsolete at this time, because in September 1942 nine months before this letter other values from experience had been available; the letter is supposed to have been just a draft.

Reading van Pelt also refutes this fallback argumentation for Irvings failed attempt to put the document proper in question.
The letter was taken into the letter register of the Auschwitz Central Construction Office under sequential number 31550, i.e. according to all rules of German administrative procedure this document was officially recorded in the files as a letter that had been sent. Drafts not sent were not recorded in letter registers.[my emphasis RM]

Besides: why should the Auschwitz Central Construction Office have issued a letter, even only as a draft, the information in which would have been obsolete since nine months?

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I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle ovens are in operation, with a capacity of 250 per day.

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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:09 am Download Post Post subject:

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It's specifics like this that the 'holocaust' Industry wishes people wouldn't investigate. Scrutiny of the specifics are incredibly simple vehicles in which to expose the lies.

How does the increasingly desperate 'holocaust' Industry respond? Simple. Arrest and imprison those that dare to speak up.

- Hannover

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This tin foil hat notion is also a main ingredient in Andrew Mathis's discredited pitch. I can't wait until the debate he promised with a politician.

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CODOH ( ) Cesspit

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In a recent interview, David Irving confirms my harsh view of him. He is as vile and grasping as he is stupid--and he is really stupid.

http://pbn.home.pl/2007/03/05/david-irving-interview-in-krakow/

Already because of its "sheer isolation," Irving "knew" that Treblinka was a death camp from which the only escape was "up." Charles Provan and Roberto Muehlenkamp are good company for Irving--they deserve each other.

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neugierig
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 75
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:58 pm Download Post Post subject:
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Friedrich Paul Berg:
In a recent interview, David Irving confirms my harsh view of him. He is as vile and grasping as he is stupid--and he is really stupid.

Yes, for me that was the last nail into the Irving coffin. Irving has done more harm to Revisionism than can be imagined. His court case, in which he demonstrated his ignorance re. revisionism, is being touted as a victory for those who promote and believe in this horrendous, filthy, lie, called the Holocaust.

Armes Deutschland.

Regards
Wilf

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I agree, Herr Muehlankamp, those guys over there are not entirely honest. Banning you and others and then performing victory dances is beyond even chutzpah. Hopefully this new poster, if he is new, will soon realize that dissenting views, if you will, are verboten.

As far as pointing him to RODOH, the name can not be mentioned, it is deleted. One of my posts was totally distorted, I dared mention RODOH, should have copied it, which almost made me quit that forum. Anyway, who knows, perhaps this lost sheep will find its way.

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CODOH ( ) Cesspit

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How can we know if there is a rational basis or not if we never see the posts that don't go through?

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All the topics and responses by Believers are here to see. It's really simple. See posts from guys like the so called 'holocaust history project's' Andrew Mathis, Cortagravatas, Roberto Muehlenkamp, on & on. They addressed the points, got demolished, and resorted to namecalling and spam. There's no way that such crap should be allowed to distract the subject of a thread.

No one can name a topic in which Believers have been censored for their specific views. Their posts/positions are here to read.

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I agree, Herr Muehlankamp, those guys over there are not entirely honest. Banning you and others and then performing victory dances is beyond even chutzpah. Hopefully this new poster, if he is new, will soon realize that dissenting views, if you will, are verboten.

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