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josedasilvaisfree |
Auschwitz gas vans testimonies |
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Last Edited By: deathonacracker 9-Jun-2009 19:24.
Edited 2 times.
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #1 | ||
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Interesting. This documents that the resistance was inventing atrocity stories to pass on, and others testified (i.e., lied) about similar hearsay that they had heard.
And unless there is something called a Saurex (sic) van, we even have the Saurer van from the Soviet Kharkov and Krasnodar trials in 1943 ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #2 | ||
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But how do explain that the resistence mentions a "model Saurex (sic), in the shape of a long box, painted greenish-yellow. Registration no. Pol 71462, driver: Arndt, Oberwachtmeister of the Polizei-Sonderkommando" which is exactly the van that is mentioned in a recently found document as "Gaswagen" for the Einsatzgruppen?
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #3 | ||
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"An unpublished Einsatzgruppe B report from 1 March 1942 (Osobyj Arkhiv in Moscow, 500-1-770, p. 8; also in USHMM, RG-11.001M.01, reel 10, 500-1-770) mentions two Saurer gas vans ("Gaswagen" is the term used) which had arrived in Smolensk on 23 February 1942. Now our ARC member from Russia has found that, according to this report, one of these gas vans (the one that belonged to Einsatzkommando 8) had the same license plate "Pol 71462" as the gas van which has been described by the Auschwitz resistance!
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #4 | ||
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It has also been found that a gas van with the license plate "Pol 71463" existed (PS-501, 13 July 1942 letter). Thus, Stanislaw Klodzinski's information about the Auschwitz gas van can be finally confirmed to be right."
www.deathcamps.org/gas_ch...hwitz.html I wonder who that "ARC member from Russia" is! |
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #5 | ||
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Sorry, I edited just as you were posting.
It comes from the Soviet Kharkov/Krasnodar propaganda showtrials, and Saurer vans are diesels, btw. ![]() Quote:That just means that somebody saw a van or read an earlier report. We are not disputing the existence of Saurer vans. ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #6 | ||
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Did you just answer my question?
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #7 | ||
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Okay, let's go step by step. How do you explain Gerlach's Gaswagen-document?
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #8 | ||
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The "Gaswagen" part is a likely forgery. Two other possibilities are Holzgas motorfuel or fumigation vans, as in the examples below:
![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #9 | ||
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Why is the Gaswagen part likely a forgery?
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The Juggernaut |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #10 | ||
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Because there were no gas vans, obviously. Duh!
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #11 | ||
Quote:Because there are simple explanations for Gaswagen terminology that don't involve homicide. The absurd part is the murder-van (sic) concept itself, the exact terminology on the Kharkov/Krasnodar trials published in English for Soviet propaganda in New York in 1944. ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #12 | ||
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Say, do you want to fool me, Scott? I think your answer makes no sense whatsover and you know it. Rather I believe Steve's reply is closer to what thoughts are actually walking around in your mind.
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #13 | ||
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I posted the pictures of two real Gaswagen.
Also, Saurers are diesels--big problem--unless we are to believe that the Germans used tanks of compressed carbon monoxide for their homicidal carriages. But then there are even reasonable examples of gas-filled bottles used for wartime motorfuel, such as in this homicidal Volkswagen. ![]() www.rodoh.us/images/img1/volksgas.jpg ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #14 | ||
Quote:Scott you haven't even shown that they were called "Gaswagen" by anybody. So far it's only your own terminology. And so far the only evidence we have that uses the term "Gaswagen" supports homicidal nature. And more importantly, it does not support your claim Gerlach's Gaswagen document is likely a forgery. I really don't know why I'm trying to discuss with you anyway. It's crazy. |
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The Juggernaut |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #15 | ||
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It is crazy. Indeed, Mr. Smith's explanation isn't far at all from my tongue-in-cheek one.
In effect, what he is saying is that since he can come up with an unsupported but hypothetically possible post hoc rationalisation for most of the instances of the term "gaswagen" in the documentation, those instances that he can't explain away with his rationalisation can only be forgeries. Start with the desired conclusion; work your way back. "Denial" ain't just a river in Egypt. |
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #16 | ||
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So you want wartime German language literature on German military vehicles where the term Gaswagen is shown?
What would they call the vehicles that I posted then? You can see the make of the vehicles from the radiator grill logo, which is Saurer, and the one truck has it painted right on the side as well. The fumigation van (German military nomenclature Sonderkraftfahrzeug 93) is an Einheits Diesel, usually a Henschel 33G1, but also made by other contractors in the early part of the war before being relaced by cheaper vehicle types. See: John Milsom, German Military Transport in WWII. (Hippocrene Books, NY: 1975), pp. 142-145. U.S. War Department, TM-E 3-451; 15 March 1945. Handbook on German Military Forces (Louisiana Univ. Press: 1995), pp. 522-523. ![]() |
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Aoris |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #17 | ||
Quote: Is this supposed to be the eagerly awaited explanation why the Gaswagen document "likely" is a forgery? If yes than Scott is making a fool out of himself, if no than I'm still waiting. |
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Scott Smith 01 |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #18 | ||
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No, I've just explained why and how Greuelpropaganda is made. You take something innocuous and make it sinister. I even have a documentary film on the Krasnodar trials and public executions in the Soviet Union that was produced by Brandeis University which shows the discredited Magirus-Deutz diesel van found near Chelmno that even the Hoaxsters who investigated it after the war said was not a murder-van. Yet one finds it everywhere, purported to be a Nazi Gas-Van.
The Gas-Van nonsense stems from Soviet propaganda to counter the Katyn accusations. I read the book that they published about it in 1944. I also quoted extensively from it in posts at the Axis History Forum. There were quite a few conveniently ignored whoppers in there too, such as a Survivor who claimed to have survived carbon monoxide poisoning in a Gas-Van by urinating on a rag. This worked in WWI when the gas was chlorine--the ammonia neutralizes the caustic gas--but it will not work with CO. It is a lie. There is also a story that the Germans smeared some black substance on the lips of people to poison them. Nice science fiction. As far as German language publications I've been through all of the rare and hard to get copies of Sammlung der Vergiftungsfllen (now called Archives of Toxicology from the 1930s -1950s and already gained some insights. Greuelpropagandists don't normally read things like medical journals. One problem is that there isn't a lot of wartime academic literature published because the Germans were busy. But a lot of it was preserved by the Americans, who looted technical papers and journals looking for things that interested them. Unfortunately, things like fumigation and wood-gas were not rocket science and didn't arouse much interest. It will take a lot of pick-and-shovel work to find things but that is the way it is done. Here's the Soviet book I mentioned: Quote: ![]() |
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #19 | ||
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So still waiting...
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Hans |
Re: Auschwitz gas vans testimonies | #20 | ||
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And this document is likely a forgery too, I suppose?
"A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the Security Service of White Ruthenia. The three S-vans, which are there, are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another S-van (5-tons). At the same time I request the shipment of 20 exhaust-hoses for the three S-vans on hand (2 Diamond, 1 Saurer) , since the ones on hand are leaky already." |
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