www.mazal.org/archive/nmt...1-T769.htm
Discuss.
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Jonathan Harrison |
Sonderbehandlung |
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Not sure if this document has been discussed on RODOH before, but it's the first time I've seen it so I'd like to throw it back into the ring:
www.mazal.org/archive/nmt...1-T769.htm Discuss.
Last Edited By: nickterry 18-Sep-2009 20:48.
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Jonathan Harrison |
Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #1 | ||
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Have deniers ever explained this document? : http://www.topographie.de/de/ros_9.htm
My English translation of "Topography of Terror" (p.123) gives this translation of the 2nd paragraph: Transport from Berlin, arrival March 7, 1943 total strength 690 including 25 prisoners in protective custody. 153 men and 25 prisoners in protective custody were assigned for work (Buna), and 65 women, 30 men and 417 women and children received special treatment.I also note that my earlier thread asking for denier comments on this document went unanswered: http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/01/NMT01-T769.htm http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/669
Last Edited By: nickterry 18-Sep-2009 20:48.
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Hans |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #2 | ||
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Mattogno tried to explain this and similiar documents from Schwarz in his Sonderbehandlung book:
http://vho.org/dl/ENG/st.pdf |
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Hans |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #3 | ||
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Interestingly, Mattogno is completely uncritically of Bischoffs note that
"The large dressing and undressing rooms are absolutely necessary, since the influx of an entire transport (approx. 2000), most of which arrive at night, must be confined within a single area until the next morning." According to Mattogno's own statements, the SS doctor Kremer was attending selections of Jewish transports when he was writing about "special actions". Kremer mentions 15 special actions he attended. One was a selection within the camp inmates. So there were 14 transports. Of those 14, one transport was selected in the afternoon and three in the evening. Of the remaining 10 transports, only three were selected "in the morning" (whereas it's not even clear weather perhaps 4 o'clock in the morning is meant), but 7 in the night: Zum 1. Male um 3 Uhr früh bei einer Sonderaktion zugegen. Therefore, according to Kremer's diary transports arriving at night were usually not locked somewhere until the next morning but immeadiately selected. This follows from documentary evidence and is also true from a Revisionist point of view! It is of course also confirmed by numerous testimonial evidence from the trials. So in can be concluded that Bischoff's claim that "the influx of an entire transport (approx. 2000), most of which arrive at night, must be confined within a single area until the next morning" is not displaying the actual processing of transports. He was either exaggerating in order to justify the large undressing room or really didn't know the process. His statement is hardly a reliable piece of information.
Last Edited By: Hans 12-May-2008 14:26.
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nickterry |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #4 | ||
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There were quite a few registered transports numbering 1000+ in 1943, i.e. of Poles/Russians or for example, the Theresienstadt family camp transports (so large they could not have been processed even if the Sauna was working when they arrived). Also, I think there is a link with the planning for the Quarantaenelager (BIIa) which opened at the end of the summer. There were cases where transports arrived, were registered, were quarantined and only then were they selected. But, Mattosha shows his usual incredible grasp of chronology by citing a document from three months after the document he is trying to 'neutralise'. Nice catch with Kremer BTW.
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tloB2 |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #5 | ||
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So Mattogno claims that those undergoing "Sonderbehandlung" were sent to a fricken spa
or what? And with the huge number of incoming "not fit to works", where did they all went eventually. If all incoming "not fit to work"-people were sent to a holiday spa within the camp it would grow enormously fast. Where does Mattogno claim they went after the spa weekend? |
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Jonny |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #6 | ||
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Of course, "Sonderbehandlung" was a nice holiday in Auschwitz Swimming-Pool.
... |
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Jonathan Harrison |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #7 | ||
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NT:
But, Mattosha shows his usual incredible grasp of chronology by citing a document from three months after the document he is trying to 'neutralise'.Infact, the chronology is at least 8 months out, since Mattogno states that: Since October of 1942, the evacuation of the Jewish population to the east, during which the Jews fit for labor were selected out at Auschwitz and remained there, was officially designated as "carrying out of special treatment."So Mattliar is asking us to swallow two whoppers in one mouthful: 1. The Nazis were still building a central sauna in June 1943 that was crucial for a program that started in Oct 42 and was largely completed by May 1943, according to the transport records he cites 2. The Nazis were still deporting Jews into war zone in June 1943
Last Edited By: Jonathan Harrison 12-May-2008 19:42.
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Jonathan Harrison |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #8 | ||
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Some examples of "special treatment" noted by Zimmerman:
1. First version of Korherr Report 2. Katzman Report 3. Lohse memo 18 June 43 4. 'In a memo dated July 20, 1943, Lt. Colonel Strauch of the Security Police writes that "I arrested and subjected to special treatment 70 Jews. . ." Strauch protests Kube's attitude...' [Strauch also wrote the infamous Sluzk order that Jews were to be 'resettled' into large pits] 5. 'A report from the German occupied Smolensk in the Soviet Union states: "On October 8, 1941, began the complete liquidation of the Jews. . .The number of Jews who came under "special treatment" amounted to about 3.000."' 6. Riga gas van memo 5 June 1942 7. Most importantly of all: Particularly interesting is a memo of July 3, 1944 from the Gestapo District Headquarters in Dusseldorf requesting "that those persons [foreign workers] subjected to special treatment be sent to a crematorium to be cremated if possible... the proclamation by means of posters of the execution of the death sentence in the labor camp will be continued."115 The link between special treatment and cremation has been established through the recently uncovered Auschwitz archives in Moscow where every document in a 120 item inventory of material for building the crematoriums in Auschwitz for an eight day period was captioned: "Concerning: Prisoner of War Camp Auschwitz (Carrying Out of Special Treatment)"...116 Thus, the purpose for the crematoria is clear.http://www.mossadist.by.ru/HD_p1_ch1.htm |
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Jonathan Harrison |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #9 | ||
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As usual, Sergey already had this covered: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/03/mattognos-special-treatment-of.html
Note that S.B. appears in Auschwitz documents up to November 1944 but lyingcunt Mattogno just ignores them, as even he would not have the chutzpah to claim that the Nazis were still deporting Jews from Poland to the USSR in Nov 44! I mean, he can feign ignorance of chronology most of the time but even his stupidest reader will know that no resettlements were happening in '44 (they'd have to be pretty dumb to swallow '42 or '43 either, of course). |
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Joachim Neander |
Sonderbehandlung | #10 | ||
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I've already treated this case elsewhere (please excuse me, I'm not very fit in internetting and don't have the time to search for it). Let me sum
up:
Those Jews from the Berlin transports that arrived in March 1943 at Auschwitz and who were not taken in, which meant registered as prisoners, obtaining a prisoner number, etc., and who were referred to in the (few) extant documents as sonderbehandelt or getrennt untergebracht, disappeared without any trace. With the exception of a few Jews from mixed marriages, who were deported against the RSHA rules and who do not appear in the extant deportation lists (strictly speaking: property confiscation lists), their names, dates of birth, and last addresses in Berlin are known. If they would have left Auschwitz and been "resettled somewhere in the East," as HDers hold, at least a few of them should have survived the war and - as German nationals - would have been expelled after the war to Germany, where they would have had to register, otherwise they would not have got ration cards, housing, clothing, or heating material, not to mention Entschädigung money. And even if they, as a HDer held, would have emigrated immediately, as German nationals they would have needed a passport issued by a German authority. But not a single person of these sonderbehandelt German Jews has ever surfaced after the war. They had left Auschwitz, indeed, but "through the chimney," as the camp saying went.
Superstition is nonsense, but the study of superstition is scholarship. Saul Lieberman, talmudist.
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nickterry |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #11 | ||
Joachim Neander wrote: An additional mystery is why none of the many German civilian internees or POWs in Soviet hands after 1945 ever reported encountering the
"resettled" Jews. That more or less rules out much of the country, as there were camps for Germans everywhere in the USSR in the 1940s.
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Jonathan Harrison |
Re: Sonderbehandlung Revisited | #12 | ||
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Blogged: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/05/mattognos-abuse-of-history.html
Thanks to Nick and Hans for their input. |
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