The old 'survivors reunited' gambit falls flat...again

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nickterry	The old 'survivors reunited' gambit falls flat...again		Lead	[-]
Member Posts: 8710 1-Apr-2009 21:38	Tags : None Apparently one of the gay neo-Nazis associated with the IHR used to specialise in finding 'Holocaust survivors reunited' stories before he died of AIDS. Some loons at CODPH are back at it, chortling at what they think they've found in a recent Haaretz article. Hey, guys, a few points: 1. The two separated siblings (adopted sister and brother) survived the war after hiding in Slovakia in '44 2. That means they were never deported. 3. That means they are not counted among the victims, even potentially. 4. They got separated after the war. 5. ever heard of the fallacy of hasty generalisation?
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Philip Mathews		#1	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 2514 2-Apr-2009 03:45	What is the relevance of the Neo-Nazi's sexuality or cause of death? “They (Allies) accepted the HGCs (Holocaust Gas Chambers) uncritically because they authored these lies.” Scott Smith’s Conspiracy www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Exhib/HowtoEngl.html
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nickterry		#2	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 8711 2-Apr-2009 07:03	Philip Mathews wrote: What is the relevance of the Neo-Nazi's sexuality or cause of death? Irony, given the attitudes of certain other neo-Nazis. Cf recent discussions in the Lounge with Mr Albert Fish.
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bluespaceoddity		#3	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 101 3-Apr-2009 16:29	nickterry wrote: Apparently one of the gay neo-Nazis associated with the IHR used to specialise in finding 'Holocaust survivors reunited' stories before he died of AIDS. Some loons at CODPH are back at it, chortling at what they think they've found in a recent Haaretz article. Hey, guys, a few points: 1. The two separated siblings (adopted sister and brother) survived the war after hiding in Slovakia in '44 2. That means they were never deported. 3. That means they are not counted among the victims, even potentially. 4. They got separated after the war. 5. ever heard of the fallacy of hasty generalisation? A nice reunification story of known survivors but the deniers once again misrepresent the research done by someone else. Do you think those inquisitive "revisionists" who commented in that codoh thread cross-referenced the names in the articles with any database of Holocaust victims before they posted their valued contributions like: "Their names have to be on a wall somewhere"? Did you keep a record of that IHR associated neo-nazi's article collection? How many of the articles found had "believed to be dead" or "erroneously listed as Holocaust victim" or similar phrases in them in stead of "survivors reunited", you think? How many referred to "transit camp" Auschwitz/Belzec/Chelmno/Sobibor or Treblinka in stead of Stuttgart? That codoh thread validates your "where did they go?" approach though, since there are at least some people among the "revisionists" who -apparently- take at least some interest in the answer to the question. That these people where never thought to have died during the Holocaust is a mere detail compared with the budding curiosity displayed for the potential of the -newly discovered- Bad Arolsen archives in that thread. Perhaps some of them will be encouraged and join the ITS volunteers. To find out what happened to those who were deported, never resurfaced anywhere and are generally accepted to have perished. Perhaps they'll genuinely get interested and explore what the sentences mean which somehow didn't make it into the codoh- thread-worthy excerpts. "... Muhlstein, whose family was almost entirely wiped out by the Nazis." or "Some of the Bachenheimers perished in the Holocaust, but many left Germany before or after the Nazi regime." Maybe they'll some day re-read the articles and ponder if their research should focus on one particular category out of the three identified in that last sentence if they are ever going to validate their own ...er... theories.
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Mr Albert Fish		#4	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 474 4-Apr-2009 12:02	nickterry wrote: Philip Mathews wrote: What is the relevance of the Neo-Nazi's sexuality or cause of death? Irony, given the attitudes of certain other neo-Nazis. Cf recent discussions in the Lounge with Mr Albert Fish. Dr Terry, you really should stick to history as you are completely useless as a profiler. Robert Jan Van Pelt stated that Leuchter's trip to Auschwitz was sacrilege: "Auschwitz is like the Holy of Holies. I have prepared for years to go there, and to have a fool come in, coming completely unprepared, it is sacrilege, somebody who walks into the Holy of Holies and doesn't give a damn."
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nickterry		#5	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 8722 4-Apr-2009 18:12	I sacrificed hairsplitting accuracy re: your ideology for the sake of metre (or is it scansion? In any case, for the writerly effect). Nothing to do with "profiling", which I can do perfectly well - better than the asinine sweeping generalisations about Bolsheviks and cultural Marxists that have flown from keyboards such as yours on this forum.
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deathonacracker		#6	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 4527 4-Apr-2009 18:46	nickterry wrote: I sacrificed hairsplitting accuracy re: your ideology for the sake of metre (or is it scansion? In any case, for the writerly effect). Nothing to do with "profiling", which I can do perfectly well - better than the asinine sweeping generalisations about Bolsheviks and cultural Marxists that have flown from keyboards such as yours on this forum. To my regret profiling is kind of a hobby. Mike Remember what Irma Grese said right after the trial? I'll remind you: "It was our duty to exterminate anti-social elements, so that Germany's future would be assured."
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nickterry		#7	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 8725 4-Apr-2009 18:54	deathonacracker wrote: To my regret profiling is kind of a hobby. it can be amusing when dealing with the denier crowd, as they are not all peas in a pod but have a remarkable convergence somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan, as the British saying goes. As with the far left, the narcissism of minor differences is pretty apparent.
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Scott Smith 01		#8	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14921 4-Apr-2009 23:56 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	Ah, but if the Survivors_TM had not been reunited, then both would have independently claimed that the other had been gassed by the Nazis, as their tribal storytelling encourages, and as modern establishment mythology mandates. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/
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KentFord9		#9	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1272 5-Apr-2009 01:39	tribal storytelling Ah, true to form, not antisemitic but brays antisemitic b.s.
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Scott Smith 01		#10	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14928 5-Apr-2009 03:25 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	And anti-Semitic = calling Jews on their bullshit. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/
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bluespaceoddity		#11	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 103 5-Apr-2009 06:15	Scott Smith 01 wrote: Ah, but if the Survivors_TM had not been reunited, then both would have independently claimed that the other had been gassed by the Nazis, as their tribal storytelling encourages, and as modern establishment mythology mandates. This would have been a perfect opportunity for survivor and professional story teller to do so. If the old man mentioned, 3 years before they found his sister again, that she had been gassed, the journalist for some reason omitted it from her Holocaust commemoration article. Holocaust Survivors Honored in Remembrance Day Ceremony By Patricia Ward Biederman LA Times May 06, 2005 ... "I didn't have a childhood," said Israeli Avraham Lowy, born in Slovakia. "What I remember from my childhood is they are running after me." Now 70, Lowy was separated from his parents in 1943 but local peasants looked after the boy and his adopted sister. Sixty years ago, his mother staggered back from the camp at Ravensbruck, Germany, weighing 70 pounds. His father also survived a camp. But Lowy and his sister had somehow become separated and she had disappeared, he recalled with tears in his eyes. "I am still looking for my sister. That's one reason I am here." Her name is Erna Muhlstein. She was born in Krakow, Poland, about 1938. Did you have any factual basis for making that claim? If so, I'd like to see it. Can you provide an example of either the brother or the sister saying what you attribute to them?
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Very Bad Guy		#12	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 83 5-Apr-2009 06:47	BSO, since the Survivors_TM were, er, separated after the war, who do you suppose would have gassed them and why exactly would you like to see a factual basis regarding that?
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Scott Smith 01		#13	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14930 5-Apr-2009 08:42 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	bluespaceoddity wrote: Did you have any factual basis for making that claim? If so, I'd like to see it. Can you provide an example of either the brother or the sister saying what you attribute to them? No, I don't. I just wanted to make a point about how certain epistemological assumptions are made regarding the Holocaust, a story which Jews are sadly trained to believe, lest they ever forget that they are Jews and not Gentiles. In any case, I'm not saying that all tribal stories or "mythologies" are bullshit, Jewish or otherwise. I therefore don't consider myself to be anti-Semitic, although I don't believe that Nazi gassings ever happened (nor has this ever been demonstrated to be true, let alone proved, regardless of what I happen to personally believe about World War II history). I am merely frustrated that Holocaust theology is mandated and must be obeyed by non-Jews, so I am more sensitive to certain species of cultural bullshitting--as I don't consider inspirational and didactic Holotales to be of the nature of harmless Blarney Stone. Furthermore, there is already too much moralizing in the world, which is one thing that I despise about Holocaustomania gambits from A to Z. For example, I was temped to change my avatar from the comic opera green Hamas rocket that landed on my patio in Scottsdale (ha ha ha) to one of Israeli Defense Forces using white phosphorous munitions in Gaza--but when one is on the receiving end of Willy Pete it really ain't too funny. So I decided against the IDF state-terrorism "Willy Pete" avatar (at least for now) because it is just too grim if one gives it some thought. Holocaust propaganda entitles one to a lot of, shall we say, vigilance "to prevent another Holocaust." That is narcissistic Scott Smith point no. 2. But who am I? I am not fit to be pointing fingers any more than anyone else--though that has never stopped me before. Okay, then, sometimes less is more so I'm shutting up now. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/ Last Edited By: Scott Smith 01 5-Apr-2009 14:35. Edited 3 times.
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nickterry		#14	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 8730 5-Apr-2009 09:15	Scott Smith 01 wrote: Ah, but if the Survivors_TM had not been reunited, then both would have independently claimed that the other had been gassed by the Nazis, as their tribal storytelling encourages, and as modern establishment mythology mandates. No, because these were Slovak Jews deported very late on, practically as gassing came to an end at Auschwitz, and they are describing being separated long after that.
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bluespaceoddity		#15	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 104 5-Apr-2009 10:01	Scott Smith 01 wrote: bluespaceoddity wrote: Did you have any factual basis for making that claim? If so, I'd like to see it. Can you provide an example of either the brother or the sister saying what you attribute to them? No, I don't. I just wanted to make a point about how certain epistemological assumptions are made regarding the Holocaust, ... Snipped ... Do you not see that the assumptions here are entirely your own and betray your prejudices? Anti-semitic = when you let preconceived ideas about "the Jews" in general dictate your comments and speculations about the behavior of individual Jews. KentFord9 was spot on, again.
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Scott Smith 01		#16	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14931 5-Apr-2009 14:34 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	My prejudices? I don't think my prejudices are to blame here, if that is what we're doing. My original point was how Survivor tales work. I don't see how that is wrong, whether the example given that Nick was chiding about is correct or not. I assumed that it wasn't, or the original post would not have been made by Nick. My point is that they would be classified as Survivors_TM in any case, which begs the question of "Surviving" what exactly. Furthermore, Jews are trained to think in those terms--lest they not be Jews. Yeah, that is my perception, at least. Here's an example that I stumbled onto. It seems that some Rabbi doesn't like it that Gentiles in Poland make money from Holocaust tourism when Israelis go to find their Jewish identities by confronting Pure Gentile Evil when their tour groups visit the so-called Death Camps. One wonders if the Rabbi is confused about whether, according to his own tribal-mythology, it was the Poles who built the Death Camps and not the Germans in World War II. It was the Gentiles, in any case, so same difference probably from his viewpoint--and pogroms did not begin and end with WWII, so it doesn't matter anyway from his "Jewish viewpoint," I guess. I don't know if this JTA reader comment is genuine or not, as I couldn't possibly write better anti-Semitic propaganda if I tried, but this is how one supposed "Jewish Studies" person commented on the Rabbi's Gentile admonition: [...] Rabbi Avner, you are right not having the children see the Concentration Camps for a ban in Israel. You are right for saying the Polish People should not be paid. You are wrong, for thinking that seeing death camps stays in our minds for 3 weeks. It might take 3 weeks to get over the shock! To see Pure EVIL close up will last forever! To bad not everyone will see it, or know about it. I have my degree in Jewish Studies, and one of my teachers said, Jews today have nothing in common, I found one thing we do! "IT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!" http://jta.org/news/article/2009/02/24/1003231/rabbi-forbidden-to-visit-nazi-death-camps The Big-H is crucial to Israeli propaganda and "Jewish" cultural-mythology (or so it appears to this Gentile). Some Super-Jews are not happy, however, that filthy Gentiles are making money off of Jewish Theme Parks in Poland, which is what the Holocaust museums are. What "Jews have in common," apparently, is that Gentiles always try to kill them in the end. It is not my fault if Jews aren't "Jews" without fear and hatred of the Gentile. But it is no wonder that Survivors_TM think in such terms. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/ Last Edited By: Scott Smith 01 5-Apr-2009 14:38. Edited 1 time.
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KentFord9		#17	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1276 5-Apr-2009 15:18	Scott Smith 01 wrote: My prejudices? I don't think my prejudices are to blame here, if that is what we're doing. I find this news story relevant to Scott's prejudiced state of mind, one in which assumptions turn up as conclusions: Sixth Street hums during Texas Relays, but Highland Mall all quiet NAACP chief promises economic sanctions against Highland Mall By Asher Price, Patrick George AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Sunday, April 05, 2009 As night fell in Austin after an action-packed day at the Texas Relays, business was humming as usual Saturday on Sixth Street. But Highland Mall was quiet, and the closing brought a rebuke from the head of the local NAACP chapter. Highland Mall and a downtown music club said they would close early or altogether because of safety concerns during Texas Relays, a track event that attracts young people, including a large number of African Americans, from Texas and other states. Highland Mall, which in previous years has been a gathering spot during the relays,closed at 2 p.m. Saturday instead of the usual 9 p.m., and Flamingo Cantina, reggae music club, was shuttered for the evening. Police have said the Clyde Littlefield Texas Relays, which bring high school and college track athletes to Austin, do not draw any more crime than other large events here. Nelson Linder, the president of the Austin branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said he was planning an organized response in the next seven to 10 days to "make sure we do something that has lasting impact on the Highland Mall." "We want to encourage folks to go where their money's wanted," he said. Highland Mall General Manager Jeff Gionnette said in an e-mail that the shopping center on Airport Boulevard was closing early "because the safety and security of our shoppers and retailers is our top priority." There were widespread but unconfirmed reports of a fight there during the Texas Relays weekend in 2007. Highland Mall has faced other problems: Dillard's Inc. said it plans to close its store there possibly as soon as midyear, and in 2006 the mall lost anchor J.C. Penney. Opinions differed on Saturday about whether the mall's actions were justified. "You have too many different hoods, too many styles. Something's going to happen," said Leon Smith, a 26-year-old African American from Georgia who was in town to watch the relays. But his friend, Chris Johnson, 24, of Dallas said that if it was an "all-white event," the mall wouldn't close. "We aren't going to act all outrageous," said Joel Hearne, a 20-year-old from Huntsville. "We're just going to shop." A security official reported no problems. A colorful scene played out in the mall's parking lot as souped-up cars, booming music and decked-out young men and women held court. "I don't know if it is a business decision or a safety decision or a racist decision," Regina Rogoff, 60, an Austin shopper said. "It's ridiculous," said Kammie Smith, a 27-year-old nurse in Austin. "Hanging out isn't a crime. It can get rowdy, but that has nothing do with us shoppers." Austin police, who increased Sixth Street patrols for the weekend, said the event had gone smoothly through Saturday evening. Officers were sent to the Burlington Coat Factory next to Highland Mall on Saturday night because a large crowd had convened there, but no arrests were reported. On Sixth Street, an unknown group distributed green fliers Saturday night that said, "Shame on Austin," with material on the other side making a reference to the closings. Despite American-Statesman reports in Thursday editions indicating that it would be closed during the Texas Relays, Emo's Austin, a live music venue, was open Friday and Saturday night.
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Scott Smith 01		#18	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14937 6-Apr-2009 00:15 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	So the Colored People's pressure group wants to impose economic sanctions somehow against the Mall because it does not want to pay for the added event security and therefore has to close. Yes, a "White event" probably wouldn't require the added security. I'm not seeing how you refute my points, though, if that is what you are doing. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/
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KentFord9		#19	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1279 6-Apr-2009 00:21	Scott Smith 01 wrote: So the Colored People's pressure group wants to impose economic sanctions somehow against the Mall because it does not want to pay for the added event security and therefore has to close. Yes, a "White event" probably wouldn't require the added security. I'm not seeing how you refute my points, though, if that is what you are doing. Of course you don't because you make the same assumptions about African Americans as you do about Jews. The salient point, of course, is that, despite the assumptions motivating the mall, Police have said the Clyde Littlefield Texas Relays, which bring high school and college track athletes to Austin, do not draw any more crime than other large events here.
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Scott Smith 01		#20	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 14939 7-Apr-2009 21:59 humble, lovable shoeshine boy	Well, the police would say that of course; whether it is true or not is another story. I cannot answer that but obviously not everybody agrees. I don't think my "assumptions" are unwarranted, however. In Congressional recently local Mestizo activists and Democrats were trying to censure the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department for attempting to enforce immigration law. Some locally took exception to the Congressional testimony, and many multi-racial members of the Sheriff's Department tearfully denied the accusations and the Congressional slander in a local press conference that was probably not convered by the national press nor of any interest to Congress. I am not a huge fan of Sheriff Joe, nor certainly the Republicans, but he gets my vote just for trying to crack down on revolving-door crime and illegals. In fact, immigration law cannot be enforced unless a Mexican is arrested on another crime and can then be proved to be an illegal alien. I don't understand why it is so difficult to make anybody, including White people, prove that they are U.S. Citizens. I don't understand why it is so hard to control the border when we presume to militarize the globe. And employers and CEOs who skate the law looking for cheap labor ought to go to prison for a long period of time. We don't want hospitals turning people away because they are illegals, but our tax dollars do have to pay for indigent healthcare when they turn out to be here in the state working illegally for enployers that don't want to pay decent wages and benefits. And yhy should employers hire American workers anyway when they can import stuff cheaply from Red China and the financial sector benefits just the same? Yes, the country is headed towards balkanization. And the imminent financial collapse is probably just thunder off in the distance--no doubt the cause and result not of corruption and fraud, but of anti-Semitism and comic-opera Nazis or something like that. But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust Revisionists or Deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions: 1. Hitler's "Final Solution" was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination. 2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich. 3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/
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The old 'survivors reunited' gambit falls flat...again

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